Breaking It Down (Explaining Further Why Being A Lesbian Is NOT A Choice)

Denial

Image: #PicsArt #FreeToEdit

The recent posts regarding the topic of Straightbians which were made by my spouse, partner, and all-around sweetiepie, Dirt, and I have been offensive to many people. I wish that the topic weren’t so divisive because it is not intended to be.

I wanted to clarify our position further by trying to break it down to the most basic examples; in order to try (once again) to convey to the disbelievers the seriousness of situation that lesbians are faced with when unknowingly dating Straightbians.

To summarize a ton of previously posted information, basically, a Straightbian is a heterosexual woman who chooses to try to partner with another woman due to a variety of possible reasons, including, but not limited to: political reasons, being sick of dating men, curiosity, thinking “the grass is greener on the other side”, trauma, mistaking friendship for love, etc.

A lot of people have mistakenly taken our posts to mean that we are being callous, exclusionary, disapproving, hostile, discriminatory, and/or just plain mean.

A lot of people, including lesbians, apparently want to believe that any woman can simply choose at any time to be a lesbian.

But: the simple fact is that all women cannot choose to be lesbians, just as lesbians cannot choose to be straight.

To imply sexual orientation is a choice implies lesbians could choose to be straight if we just wanted to, and this faulty thinking is what leads to harmful, ineffective ideas like conversion therapy.

As I have said before, magical thinking simply does not work. If a woman is straight, she is never going to fall in love with a lesbian like another lesbian would.  It is not possible ~ no matter how much you wish it were so.

The Straightbian may even stay in the relationship for a long time, so her behavior may change during the relationship, but her orientation (her inherent attraction to men, whether or not she acts on it) will never change.

Those people who are so very offended are missing the very basic core message we are trying to send, which is: JUST BE HONEST.

We are not telling straight women that they shouldn’t make the choice to partner with another woman; BUT we are saying that if a straight woman wants to date a lesbian, she needs to be honest and to admit that she is straight up-front ~ rather than falsely claiming to be any sort of “lesbian” (including a “political lesbian”, which is a flat-out misnomer).

Let’s break it down:  It’s all about truth and communication.  

No matter what your orientation is, I hope everyone can agree that all people have the right to know their potential partner’s true orientation/intentions before consenting to a sexual/romantic relationship.

Because when we don’t know the truth, we cannot give true consent.

Here are just a few examples of possible situations that most people would want/need to know about a potential partner before consenting to a relationship/sex:

1). If you are a heterosexual woman, you would probably like to know that the handsome, funny, charming man you are flirting with is really gay.

2).  If you are a straight man, you would probably want to know that the woman you are considering proposing to is a closeted lesbian before putting a ring on it.

3).  If you are a straight woman who just got proposed to by a man, you would probably want to know that he already has 3 wives and believes bigamy is the way of the future.

4).  No matter who you are, you would probably want to know that the person you are considering having a relationship does not believe in monogamy and therefore, does not plan to be exclusive.

5).  No matter who you are, you would probably want to know that the person you are falling in love with is not interested in ever having sex with you.

6).  No matter who you are, you would probably want to know that the person you are considering having sex with has a sexually transmittable disease or other contagious illness.

7).  No matter who you are, you would probably want to know that the person who you are making out with intends for you to be a one-night stand only, and therefore, is not interested in seeing you again…ever.

8). No matter who you are, you would probably want to know if the person you are getting seriously involved with has any secret that could end up hurting you eventually (possible examples include already being married; having a criminal history; having financial problems that would affect you; lying about who they really are; etc.).

9).  No matter who you are, you would probably want to know that the person you are taking home is the sex they say they are (nobody wants a “Crying Game” episode in real life).

10). Finally, last but certainly not least on today’s list is: If you are a lesbian, you should definitely want to know that the woman you are falling for is really straight.

This is not rocket science, folks. It’s basic common sense.

All people (and the term “people” includes lesbians, just in case that fact is not entirely clear to heterocentric individuals) have the right to know who they are becoming involved with sexually and romantically.

It is not offensive for lesbians to demand to know who were are getting involved with.

What is offensive is the fact that the so-called “feminists” who are defending Straightbians care so little about lesbians that they think lesbian needs/lives should take a backseat to the desire of Straightbians to hijack “lesbian” for their own purposes.

06/02/2016: Edited to Add: I meant to also say “Thanks so much” to those who have been willing to discuss this matter in a polite, open way with us. It is too easy to focus on all the people who are attacking, and forget to mention the people who can and do have intelligent discussions.

40 thoughts on “Breaking It Down (Explaining Further Why Being A Lesbian Is NOT A Choice)

  1. My partner has been telling me for some time that my ex (of 20 years) was/is and always will be a straight woman.

    1. Physical intimacy was over after the first couple of years, of course she never wanted to have oral sex with me. She was not into cuddling, hugging or even holding hands.

    2. She had terrible experiences with men in her past. So, obviously I was a refreshing change.

    3. I had financial stability. Ka-Ching!

    4. Toward the end, she told me I could purchase a trailer and put it on my property so I could have sex with women, something I was totally frustrated about for some time.

    She should have stayed a good friend, we had tons of great times together and had many adventures all over the place.

    Thankfully, my love now is a HUGE cuddler, kisser and we make love like rabbits. She enjoys our Butch/femme dynamic and appreciates me as a Butch lesbian.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Hi Chonky, From what you said, it does sound like your ex has most of the characteristics of a Straightbian. It’s possible to have good times together, as you said, because of the friendship/companionship, but there will always be issues because Straightbians are, by definition, not truly compatible with lesbians. I am glad you have now found someone who is affectionate and loving and appreciates you! Thanks for sharing, and I hope to hear more from you. 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

  2. It’s frustrating that we’re still having to have these conversations but I’m glad you’re taking the lead as you always make your points very well 🙂 So thank you for this post.

    I’m fed up with lesbianism being some sort of open category that people can choose when it suits them, from political lesbians to male trans. Being a lesbian is not a choice, ever, and by definition it can only involve females. I really wish those feminists who promote political lesbianism would back off and show us some respect. Stop hijacking our sexuality.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Hi abutterflysdiary, Thanks a lot for your comment and your understanding. I have lost several Twitter followers (and been blocked by them!) over this ~ by people I was surprised about, allegedly lesbians.

      I hate that people are offended, but I have to be honest.

      I also suspect that anyone who unfollows/blocks me for stating this opinion is a Straightbian herself (or perhaps is dating one and wants to remain in denial…?).

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Hi petre, Thanks for your comment! I agree that we do need to be supportive of those who are genuinely gay/lesbian but who, for instance, married someone of the opposite sex when he/she was young due to religious/social/family/etc. pressures. And: I think those instances confuse people, because it does make it APPEAR that people can suddenly change their orientation; but the truth is, such people in those circumstances were ALWAYS gay/lesbian but it took them a while to come out for various reasons. That’s different than someone who has never even had a secret same-sex crush but then suddenly declares “I’m a lesbian!” as an adult (Hello, Anne Heche!). So, yes, I totally agree with your comment, and thanks again for your input. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • I have to disagree a bit, because I don’t believe it’s possible to “live part of your life as a heterosexual”. I have been out a long time now, and have known many gays & lesbians besides myself, and not one, even ones who lived married (“heterosexual”) lives, says that they really, down deep, felt like they were truly attracted to the opposite sex. They ALL say it was because they felt like they “should” get married, “should” have children, etc. Without exception, all say that they had crushes on same-sex friends, teachers, camp counselors, etc., even if they did not act on those same-sex feelings immediately. I stand by the assertion that people don’t “wake up” one day and “become” a gay or lesbian. They may come out later in life, but they always knew, either consciously or subconsciously, the truth. So I respectfully have to disagree. Note that I did NOT say that their lives before they came out were “without value”, but I do say that they were NOT heterosexual.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Honestly, I don’t understand why people are so block-happy with the slightest disagreement. If you are who you say you are, then this shouldn’t cause offense to people. I know I have nothing to fear because I tell people upfront, even though I am very much into women and have been since toddlerhood, I am capable of romantic interest in men (even though I have zero interest in having sex with them, which I find repulsive, and have never seriously dated a man at any point in my life). I also tell them my religious affiliation, my boundaries regarding physical affection, whether I’m ready for an intimate relationship, what my plans are for my life, etc. That’s called, as you said, honesty. My relationships, platonic or otherwise, with lesbians have never been the worse for it.

    Even though I am not exclusively lesbian, I see a lot of this bullshit. I remember an earlier blog post that you wrote about what it means to be femme and every straightbian I have met is “femme” to the point of ridiculousness. As in, wearing skirts even when it makes no sense to do so, working as a sex worker (serving male customers of course) even though there is no pressing survival need, and just making it obvious that femme is a costume for her, not a natural state of being. She is also the kind of person that things men who transition are “lesbians” and that not sleeping with them is violence. Oh, and she is “polyamory” (aren’t they all? Really?!)

    Totally off topic, but I’m curious…you stated in a comment one time that femmes that are into other femmes are lipstick lesbians, whereas femmes are into butches. What about butches that are into other butches? Is there a special name for lesbians in between? I can’t find a straight answer in Google, as all sources have been infiltrated by queer theory, so if you could give me your input, that would be great.:) Thank you for this discussion.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi & thanks for your thoughtful comment. I am glad you understand what my partner & I are saying. So many people have mistakenly thought that we are being mean or exclusionary, but we are truly not against anybody dating anybody (that is, as long as it is fully informed and therefore consensual).

      Also, what you said is so, so, soooooo true about “High Femmes”. They are not actual Femme Lesbians at all, and they sadly create much misunderstanding and prejudice against real Femmes within the Lesbian community.

      Re: your question about Butch/Butch relationships. That is yet another controversial topic that my partner and I agree upon: There is no such thing.

      If 2 Lesbians in a relationship are not “stereotypically feminine”, people, even the 2 dykes themselves, will incorrectly refer to this as a Butch/Butch relationship.

      In general, if a Lesbian does not fall within the “stereotypically feminine” range, people, including the Lesbian herself, will incorrectly say she’s Butch.

      I have even seen people incorrectly refer to Straight women who don’t fit into the gender straitjacket (as my partner would say) as Butch, which is a ridiculous appropriation of Lesbian language.

      Thanks again for reading & commenting! 🙂

      Like

      • Cool…I figured. The way you described it, butches and into femmes and femmes are into butches. There’s a very specific relational dynamic that goes beyond just how you “present.”

        And I don’t know why it’s considered an insult for a woman to not be butch. People just cling to that moniker like their lives depended on it. To me, it’s almost like they have serious misogyny/femmephobia issues, and I think a lot of it might have to do with straightbians. People think femmes are people that cater to the male gaze, that pornify themselves, and they don’t want to be associated with that. It does not occur to them that being “feminine” can also mean being sensitive, family oriented, hard-working, or strong, or just another way of “doing woman different” that has nothing to do with men. I hope that makes sense.

        Even though I’m not a femme (obviously), I can still relate to the bullet points. I don’t wear stiletto heels and teeny skirts when I’m going to freaking Wal-Mart, but I might wear yoga pants, a polo, and pigtails (They’re cute, cummon!) when I’m doing my job unclogging g-tubes, wiping bums, chasing Alzheimer’s patients, a job on which I support myself entirely. I might not be femme or butch, but I’m definitely doing woman differently in a world where women are supposed to depend on men and not be capable.

        Hell yes I want to know if someone has a serious illness, has had sex with men, doesn’t like members of my ethnic or religious group, just got out of jail, etc. None of these is necessarily a deal-breaker. We all make mistakes, we are all human, we all get sick and injured and have prejudices that need examining. But lying to me about those things is definitely a deal-breaker.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. I find myself torn by this series of posts, and I think its great that both you and your partner have written about the topic, so there is a lot of perspective and food for thought.

    Where I struggle is that you are clear about saying that you are not trying to be exclusionary in your writing and yet as a woman that is currently in the process of divorcing her husband but in a fulfilling relationship with a lesbian I feel like you are talking about and labeling ME.

    Except, you’re not. You don’t know me. You don’t know that while I may have bought into the white picket fence ideology, got married and had babies, I have never shared intimacy with a man like I do with a woman, that I have never been as happy in my life as I was when I was in a relationship with a woman (both in the past and the present) and that I’ve come to realize over the past few months, that never in my life have I taken the time to consider the fundamental question of whether I only accepted men in my life because I was ‘supposed’ to.

    And maybe none of that matters, because I fit a stereotype, but does that mean that now, on top of having to deal with straight people’s surprise and/or discomfort around my choice to date a woman, do I also need to worry about judgement from the lesbian community that MY feelings, emotions and experience are not authentic because I was previously married to a man?

    While I agree with the primary principle you present, which is to be honest and upfront with your partner, or potential partner (and I absolutely have been), I do find myself taking a little bit of offense to the stereotyping and labeling that this series of posts supposes to impose on a woman that presents her sexuality in a certain way…quite likely, my way.

    I mean no offense by my comment and I hope that none is taken, but rather feel like you have put forth some quite thought provoking writing, and these are my thoughts…

    Liked by 3 people

    • Hi Shine Brightly & thanks for your comment! I don’t know if you have read all (there are a lot, lol) of the posts or not, but we have briefly touched upon that topic a couple of times, but we have not done a whole post about this particular aspect, and maybe we should. We did try to make sure people know not to confuse behavior with orientation. I think that this type of scenario does confuse a lot of people. It’s probably too complex of a topic to try to answer in a reply, but, basically, there are a lot of women out there who did initially marry men and perhaps have children; due to the myriad of the stated AND unstated pressures of society, family, church, friends, work, community, etc. And then they come out as lesbians later and realize that they never really had a true “romantic” connection with a man (except for maybe a sort of friendship-like rapport and/or a business-like arrangement). They find an intimacy, closeness, and “rightness” with a woman that they never even remotely felt with a man. I know of someone who got married to a man and had 5 children and then later came out as a lesbian, and yes, she is a “real lesbian”, for lack of a better wording. Again, my partner and I stress that people usually confuse behavior with orientation. Just because a woman might initially partner with a man, then later come out as a lesbian, does NOT mean she’s not a lesbian. But, by the same token, just because a woman is in a relationship with a woman does not mean she IS a lesbian. Those are behaviors. The distinction that we are trying to make is whether the woman is truly and deeply sexually/romantically oriented toward other women (regardless of her behavior before she came out) ~ or whether her true sexual/romantic orientation is toward men but she has chosen to partner with another woman (for any of a number of potential reasons). For instance: Is she truly romantically/sexually attracted to a woman? Does she desire to touch another woman intimately, or is she a pillow princess (who wants to receive but never give)? Etc. I know that this is a complicated and confusing topic, and one that is not easily explained. I appreciate your comment and your input ~ it provides me with some more food for thought too. Please let me know if you have any more questions or comments…and again, thanks for your comment! 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • Good Morning,

        Thanks for acknowledging my perspective and providing some clarity on the topic at hand; Your response hits on some key ideas that, for me, feel like important distinctions. I hope you do write more on the topic because it has the potential to provide some more depth to the series and personally, I think I’d really enjoy reading it. Have a wonderful day!

        Liked by 2 people

        • Thanks so much, Shine Brightly! Your comment made me realize that, although we had attempted to touch on that aspect, we hadn’t fully focused on it. And I realized that your questions/concerns are likely THE most confusing part of the entire topic, so definitely that will need some further exploration. Thanks for bringing the need for further clarification to my attention, and hope you have a great day! 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

  6. Okay, Saye, you are officially brilliant. (And Dirt is too, in her own way.) 😉 Shine Brightly and Saye, the discussion you just had was a class act.

    Now I have two more cents, lol.

    Just like some women take offense to the idea that they are not “butch” (because they feel that being femme or in-between is some kind of insult, which it’s not) some women take offense to the idea that they are not really lesbians. Some people do think that straight women are handmaidens for patriarchy and have a patronizing, stereotyped view of straight people in general. However, there is absolutely no insult in being straight or bisexual. Yes, it takes courage, imagination, and tenacity to be lesbian and male-exclusive in a patriarchal, hereosexist world. Living authentically, you don’t have access to the privileges of straight life, but if you do cash in on those privileges for survival, you never get to enjoy it because you are always taking abuse and living a lie. Being a lesbian isn’t easy. However, you don’t have to be lesbian to be woman-centered. It takes just as much courage, tenacity, and imagination to be a celibate, straight or bi woman and *choose* to be woman-centered, and that certainly isn’t easy either. On one hand, you have straight privilege right at your fingertips, as well as a potentially, very satisfying romantic partnership and sex life with the man of your dreams. But, in exchange for supporting women and lesbians and living authentically, you choose to give that up for a celibate, woman-centered life. Out of love for yourself, all women and lesbians, you bear the cross. Forgive the language, I’m Catholic. 😉 It reminds me of the concept of penance and “offering it up.” When straight and bi women choose celibacy, we are offering up our struggles and self-denials to support an end to patriarchy by radically choosing not to participate. To me, being a celibate separatist is just as valid and necessary as being a lesbian feminist. We are all women, we all suffer under patriarchy, we all do woman a little differently. Now why not do straight differently and not rub straight privilege in lesbians’ faces? Huh? Can we agree to do that?

    Okay, I have a cool idea for a blog post. Of course you don’t have to write anything you don’t want to…but what are your thoughts on bisexuals? Do they exist? Are they straight privileged? Are they an asset to, or a detraction from, gay or lesbian life and politics? I have my own views, of course, which is that I am definitely bisexual, but with only a vanishing interest in men. I find men physically attractive sometimes. I am open to dating the right man and enjoying a man’s company in a friendly or romantic sense…but I have zero sexual interest in them. Even my romantic feelings for men are a pale imitation of my feelings for women. Men are great friends and partners, but they will never be real lovers. And I have dated maybe two men my whole life, both of whom were duds, no chemistry at all. On the surface, people might say I was lesbian and people have “accused” me of such. On a technical level, however, for the sake of honesty, I call myself homoflexible. Definite allegiance to woman, but some romantic fuzzies/ date nights reserved a one or two elite men (who so far don’t exist LOL). Okay, navel gazing over. You’re the best, look forward to hearing from you!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Good morning! Thanks as always for your thought-provoking comments! I am just now waking up and having coffee; and need a little more coffee before I reread and respond! 🙂

      Like

    • Hi again Joanna, Well, I got my errands done and am finally back and cooling down from the heat.

      I haven’t written about the subject of bisexuals yet, although I have somehow managed to get into heated discussions about the subject on Twitter, LOL!

      I would very much like to hear your perspective on it.

      I personally find the actual concept of bisexuality very difficult to understand; it actually puzzles me how anybody could be attracted to both men and women (since they are so very different).

      Please note that I am NOT trying to insult anyone, I’m just saying that I personally don’t understand it.

      Over the years, I have never dated anyone bisexual, but I have known other lesbians who have, and one alarming thing (from the lesbian perspective) is that in every single case that I know of personally, ALL of them eventually ended up with men, which makes many lesbians suspicious that they were really “Straightbians” all along.

      Also, the famous women who say they are bisexual have ended up with men as well (Drew Barrymore, Angelina Jolie, Amber Heard, etc.), which further reinforces the impression that they may be curious/liberal/adventurous straight women.

      I think this phenomenon of ultimately typically ending up with men is why some of the lesbian community is cautious about bisexuality; it’s because many of us have gotten burned (or know someone who has), and therefore many lesbians are more comfortable with dating outright lesbians.

      Again, I really don’t mean to insult you (or anyone else); I am just expressing my own puzzlement about the concept itself, and the experiences/observations that have made me view it with caution.

      I also enjoyed reading your thoughts on celibacy and separatism, and yes, I agree that those are just as valid as lesbian feminism.

      My main thought in general about ALL of these topics, and the reason my partner and I have written this series of posts, is that ANY choice is valid and okay, as long as each person is honest with herself and is honest with any potential partners about her own orientation/intentions/etc.

      Thanks for your thoughts and your support, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on bisexuality (and anything else you want to say!). 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • Just got reliable internet after being at sea for a week. Will reply more in depth later because I have lots of thoughts and no, you absolutely do not need to apologize. You have been nothing but diplomatic and I appreciate someone telling the truth to me and giving me a chance to respond to it. And to be honest? I found out pretty quickly that bisexual has become synonymous with “kinkster with no boundaries,” especially with women. If one word needs to die, it’s bi-curious. I hate it! If there are indeed prejudices and misunderstandings and biphobia regarding my population? It’s in large part because of bisexuals themselves. Will say more later. ❤

        Liked by 1 person

  7. Okay, moment of truth. In my experience, the only bisexuals that are truly evenly divided between men and women are those in porn, and they almost always prefer men in the end. Real world bisexuals tend to strongly prefer one or the other. For example, a homoflexible bisexual loves women, but if a committed same-sex relationship ends for whatever reason, They might date a man when they start dating again and genuinely enjoy a sexual relationship. A heteroflexible bi on the casual dating scene will date a variety of people, mostly straight with a few memorable homo experiences. I remember having an eye opening experience while maintaining a profile on an adult website and seeing how, um, sexually aggressive, pornified, and promiscuous bisexuals were and how annoyed men would get when I wouldn’t meet their expectations (I’m a fake and a tease for not wanting to have threesomes and orgies with “lesbians,” not wanting to see dick pictures, etc.) Keep in mind I’m a millenial who came of age in the era of “queer.” I also have had a handful of, say, not mutually agreed upon romantic and sexual encounters with men back when I was years younger and very economically vulnerable. I have a theory that het identified bisexuals are the adventurous straightbians you describe and homo-identified bisexuals are actually sexually abused/exploited lesbians. Women are socialized from a young age to “prove their womanhood” by offering their sexual services to men, whether in marriage, prostitution, etc. for free or for pay. And it’s well known that sexually abused girls often become hypersexual, being gaslighted into thinking that this is what they really want or need. Especially if they suspect they are lesbian, They may throw themselves into het sex (or food or drugs, etc) to stuff it. Just a theory.)

    Another theory I have is that bisexuals can feel genuine attraction to both sexes but, for political, cultural, or personal reasons only focus on one. I am reminded of the Roman Catholic rite called marriage in the extraordinary form (or Josephite marriage, spiritual or platonic marriage, etc.) I suspect that in addition to being a devotion to the Holy Family, it was also a way for the church to deal with the “problem” of gays and lesbians, or people who could not or would not have sex or produce children for a number of reasons. I could easily see a bisexual woman of old (or conservative bisexual of today) being a celibate separatist feminist, marrying a man to enjoy the romance (the cuddles, the wine, etc) and the companionship, not to mention the financial and other advantages of straight married privilege. Meanwhile, her “vocation to God” as it were is to advocate for women’s welfare and interests, with the help of her married privilege, and being celibate, spending a lot of time developing intense connections with the women she serves. There are a number of ways to be bi, but in the real world (not the poem world) honest bisexuals usually fall strongly one way or the other, but are still capable of enjoying sex and sometimes seeking it out from members of the non-preferred sex. The evenly divided bisexuals tend to be very adventurous, very sexually active/aggressive straight people. I learned the hard way that bisexual, to the public, is more or less a substitute for bi-curious or straight with a rebellious streak. Its hard to find committed bisexuals, especially those that lean homo, and you need to machete your way past jungles of men with no boundaries and a sense of entitlement. Ugh.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Hi Joanna, thanks for your detailed comment! It certainly gives me a LOT of food for thought! I will reread it multiple times to fully process it…

      Off the top of my head, it makes a lot of sense what you said regarding your observations about how most bisexuals typically seem to prefer either women or men.

      Like I said in my earlier comment, that question is one of the things that has always puzzled me about the concept of bisexuality: i.e., how can someone be equally attracted to both, because men and women are so different physically.

      So, it makes intuitive sense to me that there would typically be a leaning either toward men or toward women.

      I will be thinking about your other points too. It is so nice to be able to have an open, polite, reasonable. fascinating discussion like this ~ I truly appreciate it!

      More later…:-)

      Liked by 2 people

      • I forgot the most important point…porn, not poem. Die, autocorrect, die!

        I realized I forgot to answer your question about men and women being different.

        1. My experience is that one sex, usually the nonpreferred sex, is an “acquired” taste that is discovered later in life. Kind of like opera. When they find the right person, in the right place, at the right time in their lives, all of a sudden, the opera-the chosen language, the orchestra, actors, the scenery, etc.-all come together and you realize, hey, I like this. Same with meeting your first interference crush. IF you are capable of attraction to both sexes to begin with. If you’re deaf, don’t speak Italian or German, don’t care for musically based theatre or bel canto singing, etc. Opera will likely never be for you. But if you’re inclined to like those things and you take the time to explore? You might find something. This process usually happens as a teen/young adult, long after the first preferred crush.

        2. Bisexuals will only pursue a crush of the nonpreferred sex if they meet a certain type. I’m not about to waste my time on my nonpreferred sex unless you have certain qualities that I know I will find attractive in you, and these need to be apparent right off the bat.

        3. The “type” of person from the nonpreferred sex almost always reminds the bisexual of their preferred sex. For example, I love very refined, very feminine men who are intellectual. I get weak in the knees when I meet a man who is intellectually gifted. And even THEN, I would still say keep your hands and your peen to yourself.;) A typical man, a masculine man, any man that doesn’t conform to my type? Move along boys.

        Liked by 1 person

    • I want to contribute something to your discussion of ‘bisexuality’ but don’t find an easy way to do that which is not ‘crashing’ on your blog. Therefore, please receive what I have to say as something which you can choose or not to publish, in whole or in part. It’s about bisexual men, not bisexual women. How shall I categorize the many and various ‘bisexual’ men? Most obviously, there’s the ‘absolutely entitled’ male, who started his sexual career by fucking younger boys in school and who now has an absolute right to fuck any woman or girl (and maybe still, boy) who takes his fancy. Then again, there is what I call the ‘distributive’ bisexual, who wants to take girls or women probably quite violently “up the cunt” and wants some man to take him equally violently “up the arse”. Ugh! Then there’s the cute gay guy who once had a rather nice lick’n’fumble with his lesbian best friend, and thinks on the strength of that he has to call himself ‘bisexual’. No you don’t, Sister! Not meant as a reasoned argument (though I can make one if you want), just stray thoughts. Hope all is well in the Western Colonies! Kisses,   Petre

      Liked by 3 people

    • “I get weak in the knees when I meet a man who is intellectually gifted.”

      The next time you’re planning a straight date, I’m your nerdy guy. You sound like my kinda gal too. I won’t be holding by breath, though.

      From a male perspective (often unhelpful, I acknowledge) it’s simply not possible to be in bed with a guy and not know whether he’s gay or just a straight ‘tourist’. I accept that women’s experience and evaluation may be different, but c’mon…!

      Liked by 1 person

      • Men also have a painfully obvious indicator of their arousal that women do not have, lol. I think that is part of the issue, and I think another aspect has to do with socialization. Women are conditioned to place the feelings of others first and to take interest in them even when we would rather not, so when we aren’t really into something, we tend to be good at concealing it to preserve the feelings of the other person.

        As for a date? What the hell…I haven’t been out in a while.;)

        Liked by 1 person

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  13. Hi Saye, you said
    “… the simple fact is that all women cannot choose to be lesbians, just as lesbians cannot choose to be straight…”

    but, perhaps, there is a problem with our ability to “choose” in an oppressive patriarchal environment?

    I’m thinking, what about those who “choose” to be straight by social conditioning, etc., and then assume, by internalized homophobia or other reasons, that they are “not lesbians” – independently of the fact that these women are really happy or not in their “chosen” hetero lives.
    How to distinguish between a “real straight” person from one that, to a certain extent, “chose to be straight” and after some point never consider the possibility of being a lesbian (or bi) anymore, or even – possibly – become homophobic to some extent, etc.?

    My point is, are there strong social aspects that might condition our present understanding of sexual orientation (not only “behavior”, as you explained, but *orientation* itself – supposed to be a “free” individual manifestation)?

    In another words, our present society is patriarchal, and its foundations are created to maintain the current structure of oppression and control *and* part of this structure *is based* on heterosexuality as the normal orientation, instead of gay or bi.
    Now, suppose that we lived in a completely egalitarian and respectful society where where all (2-3 types of) sexual orientations were equally cherished and valued and women had a central role in society (like in a matriarchal society, or something like that).
    In this case, do you still think that the “choice” or “discovery” of sexual orientation would be any different than it is in our still oppressive and controlling society?

    Thanks for this great discussion and for sharing your thoughts! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi Dmh & thanks for you comments! 🙂

      Regarding your questions:

      Here’s the “short form” of my answer: No, orientation itself is not influenced by society/patriarchy, but behavior is.

      In the “long form”, the basic answer is still the same: Orientation is fixed but behavior is changeable. However, in real life, there are many factors that can influence Lesbians’ coming out process, and in fact, some Lesbians may never even come out at all due to factors such as fear or pressure or internalized homophobia. Similarly, there are many reasons why Straightbians may choose to partner with women, and they may even stay with a woman for a lifetime.

      These individual reasons and variations (and the level of self-knowledge and honesty of the individual telling her story) all coalesce into numerous so-called “coming out” stories (some legitimate, some not), making it seem like sexual orientation is a complicated, fluid, nebulous, vague, or academic process, when in reality, it’s not.

      The theorists and feminists and others who continuously try to make Lesbian complicated have their own individual motivations for doing so, but ultimately, the result of trying to make Lesbian an academic concept is to deny our very existence, and the “experts” have successfully confused the public enough to get away with it.

      Lesbian is not complicated. We are real and we exist.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Thanks for your replay, Saye, I agree with you.
        To be a lesbian is not complicated and needs no academic studies to be defined.

        You and Dirt said, in a recent post, that to be a lesbian is normal and I profoundly agree with this too.
        In particular, regarding the influence of society on “behavior”, the idea of “political lesbianism” could perhaps have some validation in this context.

        I tend to believe that, in a less restrictive society than the patriarchal one we live, the number of women living as lesbians would be far greater than what we see now, perhaps 20 percent, perhaps more of the total women’s population.
        I’m not sure if this would be true for gay men or not.

        In some sense, I tend to think that homosexuality is an “intrinsic” part of women’s mind, although it may not necessarily lead to lesbianism (I don’t know if I’m making myself totally clear in this phrase 🙂 )

        Liked by 1 person

        • Hi again, That’s an interesting question about whether the statistics on the percentage of lesbians would change on a census if we lived in a non-patriarchal society. I don’t know, but I always enjoy thinking about theoretical possibilities, so I will have to give that idea some thought. 🙂

          I have definitive views on “political lesbianism” ~ while I agree with all women choosing whatever life they want to live (I mean, as long as they are honest with themselves and their partners) ~ women who choose to partner with other women due to political/philosophical reasons (or any other reason other than Lesbian orientation) should NOT call themselves “Lesbians” of any sort ~ political or otherwise. They should come up with a new term: “Post-Heterosexualist”; “Woman-Focused-Woman”; or whatever fancy term they want…just NOT “Lesbian”.

          Liked by 1 person

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