What’s The Deal With Bisexuality?

Important Notes:

Blogger joannadeadwinter is doing a series of intelligent, comprehensive, and intriguing posts on the topic of bisexuality and I highly recommend reading them.

She asked me to participate in the conversation by doing a guest post, so what is posted below is originally published  at her blog here.

I also wanted to say that I know that my views of many things are controversial, but please understand that I am always very open to civil discussion and to consideration of other well-thought-out views.  

So: if you disagree with me,  I challenge you to convince me otherwise.  

If you think I am wrong about bisexuality (or anything else), please tell me why.  Give me examples, facts, theories, experiences, feelings, data, research…something…anything but the likes of “you’re wrong and you’re ridiculous”.  

Because we need to challenge ourselves and others to discuss (and even vehemently disagree) about a topic without denigrating and/or simply dismissing the other person’s viewpoint.  We should strive to understand the other person’s point of view…that is, as long as the person is at least attempting to present views civilly and coherently.  If we have information or thoughts that may contribute to a discussion, we should be able to speak up without fear of being ridiculed and/or dismissed publicly.  

And I wanted to give everyone another friendly reminder that if you have a problem with Dirt, please discuss it with Dirt.

So, without further delay, here is the post:

If I had been asked to do a guest post on bisexuality a month ago, it would have been a very short post, LOL!

But: reading joannadeadwinter’s first 2 posts regarding her theory of bisexuality has been very interesting and informative.  Plus, I am always willing to take a closer look at my views and having a back-and-forth discussion is a good way to look at all angles of a topic.

So this first guest post will address what I have always believed so far, and why I have come to these conclusions.

My view on bisexuality has always been the same: I have never believed true bisexuality really exists.

I know that probably sounds harsh, but I truly don’t mean it that way. I am not denying anybody’s rights to do whatever they please as long as it’s legal, and I am not encouraging discrimination of any sort; rather, I am stating my opinion on the matter based on my observations.

So please hang in there and allow me to explain my views. (Please note that I am talking about females because I don’t know any males who say they are bisexual, and male sexuality does not interest me enough to research it).

Okay, so, here goes:

I have been out as a lesbian and involved in the lesbian community for many years now, and I know many lesbians and know of many more. But I have never in all these years…I repeat, NEVER…met or heard of a woman who claimed to be bisexual who wasn’t really a straight woman.

The few I knew of in my teens and 20’s were all adventurous, curious, and exciting women who then married men and become soccer moms before the age of 30. The ones who I have known of who claimed to be bisexual later in life have been straight women who are sick of men and are thinking the grass was greener on the other side; and once they had a fling with a woman, they returned to men…where they stayed.

Of course, I won’t name any names since they are private citizens who are entitled to their privacy, but I have kept up with them through the grapevine as a sort of informal research into the topic. And they are ALL still with men now.

Granted, even though I have been out for years and know a lot of people in the lesbian community, I admit that my sample size is limited and can’t possibly encompass every single instance.

But: even the most well-known celebrities who have claimed to be bisexual have ended up with men:  Amber Heard, Drew Barrymore, Angelina Jolie, Lindsay Lohan…just to name a few.  (And this doesn’t even count the numerous Straightbians like Anne Heche who have called themselves lesbian but are really straight, but that is another topic).

In regards to the often-asked question as to why would anyone say they are bisexual when they are really straight: there could be many reasons, including but not limited to: curiosity, adventurousness, rebelliousness, wanting to be different/cool, wanting attention, feeling close to female friends and mistaking that closeness for romantic feelings, performance for men, confusion about feelings, trauma, etc.

The main argument against my theory that these are really straight women usually is: “Well, if someone is bisexual, then there’s a 50/50 chance she will end up with a man, right?”  Well, not even addressing all the ways that this question itself is faulty, the main question when faced with that argument is: Then why do they ALWAYS seems to end up with men?  If it were truly a coin-toss situation, wouldn’t approximately half of them end up with women?  But, no, that doesn’t happen, at least not that I have observed.

The other argument that people bring up against my theory is that it is simply easier and more socially acceptable for a woman to partner with a man, thereby explaining why most/all end up with men. Although I agree that a stigma to have a same-sex partner remains, I don’t think this simplistic explanation is the reason that most/all end up with men. Plus, if a woman is bold enough to publicly declare that she is bisexual, I think she is unlikely to be the cautious, do-what-society-expects-of-me type anyway.

So while I realize that bisexual behavior obviously can and does exist, I still question: is bisexuality an actual orientation?  One thing that has always struck me as impossible is being equally attracted to both sexes; because the differences between men and women are so significant that I cannot imagine someone being equally attracted to both. joannadeadwinter makes the point that there is a leaning toward one or the other, which certainly makes much more sense than the 50/50 theory.

Whatever the case, I think that the term bisexual is misused and overused.

Just yesterday, I was reminded of this when I was getting my hair cut.  A woman who appeared to be in her mid-late 50’s (and was very upper-middle-class, conservative looking, and Martha Stewart-ish) was seated next to me while getting her hair done, so I could clearly hear the conversation that this woman and her stylist were having. They were talking about how they are different now than when they were in their 20’s, and this woman suddenly stated, “Oh, when I was in my 20’s, I was a crazy bisexual bitch!” Needless to say, that statement got my attention, so I continued to listen. She went on to explain that her boyfriend at the time had wanted to have a threesome, so they picked up another woman at a bar and even had a three-way relationship with her for a brief time. It didn’t end well, unsurprisingly. The woman went on to say that soon afterwards, she met and married the man who still is her husband and she “turned into a Republican”. I didn’t interject my thoughts, but you can imagine what they were: This woman was never a bisexual (or lesbian) at all.  She engaged in a threesome to please her man. Period. She was, and still is, straight, but this example illustrates how the term bisexual is misused and overused, which undoubtedly leads to some of the stigma and confusion associated with the term.

I will close this post by saying that I still have my opinions about this topic (obviously, LOL!), but I am always very open to further thought and discussion, and thanks to joannadeadwinter for suggesting this conversation!

59 thoughts on “What’s The Deal With Bisexuality?

  1. Another thorough analysis, thank you Dr. Bennett.

    My brief 2 coppers on this subject follows:

    I am quite sure most of you remember Martina Navratilova, the great female tennis player. She is out and proud as a lesbian for numerous years, BUT, in her coming out days, she referred to herself as a bisexual. She believed in her heart of hearts, she would fare better from public scrutiny if she called herself a bisexual as opposed to a lesbian.

    Elton John also called himself a bisexual in his earlier days. Yes, many lesbians and gays really never were interested in the opposite sex, but thought everyone would not think less of them is they claimed bisexuality.

    Your story about the woman at the hairdresser. Yes, and yes. If anyone has ever used an online dating site, just look at the “bicurious” or claiming they are bi (especially females) Many say straight out, their “husbands” “boyfriends” gave them permission to look for another female. Most of the time, this “bicurious” bullshit leads back to a male.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Thanks, Chonky!

      You made some great points.

      I didn’t remember (or perhaps I just never knew) that Martina had originally said she was bisexual. Thanks for the information!

      Also didn’t remember (or know) about Elton John but that doesn’t surprise me since I haven’t paid as much attention to men.

      It makes sense that perhaps some lesbians or gay men might initially come out by saying they are bisexual to “ease into” being lesbian/gay.

      I haven’t personally known anybody who did that, but I can see that it indeed might happen that way, depending on the person/circumstances.

      Thanks for mentioning another angle I had not thought of!

      Liked by 5 people

  2. Thanks for saying what I and other lesbians REALLY think but don’t say because it isn’t PC to say it.

    Some people will punish you for saying it by saying you are ridiculous or stupid. That is because they want to shut you up and distract you from the truth. Don’t let them.

    However, that being said, I think it is much better for a woman to say she is bisexual rather than lying and saying she is a lesbian when she is really a pretendbian. At least the lesbian has fair warning then that they will get dumped for a man.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Hi meaghanfiona, Thanks for your comment!

      Thanks for the encouragement too. I typically don’t let other people’s opinions get me down, so I definitely won’t shut up!

      I totally agree about people should just be honest with themselves and their partners.

      If a woman knows she is attracted to men, just say so before becoming involved with a lesbian.

      That is really the main point that Dirt and I have been trying to make about Straightbians: of course, people have the right to do whatever they want as long as it is between consenting adults, BUT if the lesbian potential partner does not have all the information, then she can’t truly give consent.

      It’s really not complicated at all.

      Liked by 5 people

  3. Even as a self-identified bisexual (a virgin at that, even though I’m nearly 30), the comments above sadly ring true. I was on an adult website for a period of time, and virtually without fail, the Bisexual women were married to/partnered with men, often had children and were bored housewives looking for threesomes, polyamory, etc. And the bisexual men are some of the most shallow, most perverted I ever met. It got to the point where I blocked men and revealed my orientation (to women) as NOYB. Once they got to know me a little, I would mention I was bi. After that, they can choose to proceed or not. BTW, I’m still single, celibate, and loving it. I came out as bi at 13 in a conservative religious rural town, and mainly to keep people from taunting me about hanging out with men, which is what happens when you come out as lesbian.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Yes, I think lesbian experiences with (and observations of) such women partnered with men while claiming bisexuality have made many of us deeply wary of the entire concept.

      On most Saturday nights at the lesbian bar, some hopeful male/female couple will come rolling in, looking around excitedly, entirely and bizarrely convinced that us lesbos will be thrilled to just drop our underwear on the spot. They would hang out for a bit before leaving, always deeply disappointed.

      Or: many lesbians have had experiences like yours online, where the women claiming to be bisexual are really women married to men who were looking for excitement (and usually to please her man).

      So thanks for understanding our wariness with the concept. I think people often equate questioning with hate or exclusion when it really is not meant that way and has often evolved through experience and observation as self-protection.

      Liked by 5 people

  4. Sorry if I sounded negative above. Don’t mean to offend anyone, but the simple truth is that many lesbians (all that I know but I’m saying many because I can’t speak for all) are suspicious and skeptical of bisexuality, and many lesbians either won’t date them at all, or have already been burned by one.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Hi again, I didn’t perceive your comment to be negative, and hope nobody else has either. It is often difficult to explain thoughts without offending someone and I appreciate your concern about trying not to offend. 🙂

      Liked by 4 people

  5. As far as bisexuals leaning one way or the other, what generally happens is that, from a very early age, they will have intense crushes and connections with one sex, without necessarily understanding what they are. They will continue to feel this way throughout childhood, and others will start to notice they don’t talk about the opposite sex…at all. I first knew I liked girls at four and I had my first real crush at 11, on a woman, that was really intense and sexually charged. I remember being so scared and disgusted with myself. A few years later, I developed my first similar crush on a man. What I have noticed is this: the sexual preference of bisexuals (primarily homo or primarily hetero) will be felt very early in life. Sexual interest in the other sex will usually develop in the teens or early 20s. Furthermore, opposite sex love interests will tend to resemble same sex interests. For example, all of the very few men I have ever crushed on were all feminine or androgynous men, and never did I seriously desire to have sex with them. I fantasize at times about what it would be like to make out or engage in sex acts with these men, buy anytime I get anywhere near actually doing anything with men? *Puke* It’s the same in reverse. Women who lean heterosexual choose butch female partners because they more closely resemble their preferred love interest. Her earliest interests were probably in men, but discovered lesbians later in life.

    Liked by 5 people

    • I am wondering, if you don’t mind me asking, if you haven’t ever really seriously desired to have sex with men, how do you know you are bisexual? In other words, were the crushes you have had on men primarily friendship and/or intellectual (or something along those lines) versus truly romantic/sexual? Of course, I am curious, and sorry if I am being nosy. Feel free to say if you ever don’t feel comfortable discussing anything. 🙂

      Liked by 5 people

      • No problem! I say bisexual because when I find a man I like, I may fantasize about him sexually (penetration, being taken, etc) and really enjoy it. After all, you can make just about anything a pleasure in fantasy land. I always thought if you had pleasurable feelings towards sex with men, in any capacity, even just in fantasy, it only made sense to play it safe and say I’m bisexual. Then again, at 13, I was just finding out about men and I thought it made sense to wait awhile and stay open, just in case I Grow Up (TM) and meet that elusive Right Man (TM). I thought maybe my squeamishness towards intimacy with men was because I was an awkward school girl. My crushes were too intense for friendship because of the fantasy component, but never enough to compel me to seek out sex with men either. The only times I ever interacted with men sexually were two abusive relationships. Otherwise, I avoided romantic contact with men.

        Long story short, I’m no longer an awkward school girl, I have grown up and I’m pretty sure Mr. Right isn’t coming. More importantly, I’m not interested in Mr. Right even if he does show and I’m even less enamored of his package (which I’ve always thought disgusting). Every now and then, my sex fantasies with men reappear, but they are mostly gone now and as of today, I have never willingly engaged in sex with men and I don’t ever plan to. Maybe the bisexual label doesn’t really apply to me anymore, but it seems odd to call myself a lesbian when I, occasionally, have sexual interest for men. More than anything, at this point, the bi label covers my ass. That way, my lesbian partners can be pleasantly surprised when I claim bisexuality and stick around, as opposed to disappointing them by claiming lesbianism and dumping them for a man.

        Liked by 5 people

        • I should also mention one of my quirks, which is that I have a rich inner life, and that includes my sexuality. In fact, I would say 95% of my life happens inward. And if we’re talking about inner sex life, then I’m very bi. I have a cast of favorite male fictional characters that pay me a visit and those can be powerful moments. As for the real-life relational and physical piece? No way. If I find someone that shares the same fantasies, I can get a female partner to play the feminine male character of my choice and she can do the same with me. One of my favorites is my partner as Lucius and me as Narcissa…or Rodolphus and Brllatrix lol. So when I discuss bisexuality, for me it includes my inner life. I hope that makes sense.

          Liked by 5 people

        • I understand that! About 95% of my life happens inwardly too. I am always “in my head”, so much so that I am quite clumsy and may run into something because I was too busy writing a fictional scene in my head. I am an INFP, which pretty much explains it. 🙂

          Liked by 5 people

        • Finally back and settling in!

          Thanks for sharing and for explaining so well! Based on what you are saying, it sounds like the fantasies about men are just that: fantasies. I like your reasoning about calling yourself bi to cover your ass since you have had some fantasies about males even though you aren’t interested in acting them out; and it is unusually honest and refreshing to be so candid.

          If everyone had excellent communication skills like you do, we probably wouldn’t even need to be having this conversation at all, because it seems to me that a lot of the distrust many lesbians have about bisexuality have to do with either having already been burned or the fear of getting burned due to lack of security/information, and also due to the intent/history of most women who say they are bisexual of actually fulfilling their sexual desires with men.

          So, yes, I agree it is much better for everyone to be completely honest upfront; which is the core theme of what Dirt and I have been trying to say: we are NOT saying that women shouldn’t do whatever pleases them, but rather we are just saying to be honest with themselves and their partners about their orientation, history, and desires.

          Liked by 5 people

        • I think, in this age of porn and lifelong decisions about identity being made on behalf of toddlers, we have forgotten that it’s normal to have fantasies, and it’s normal to admire members of both sexes. It’s normal to feel closeness and affection with people, and be curious about them, and to express it. Having feelings and having consistent, intense *patterns* of feelings and, also, behavior that acts on those feelings, are two very different things. No matter how much I like certain feminine/androgynous men, and fantasize about them, their male biology (genitalia, bone structure, etc). prevents me from engaging sexually. Besides, few men are femme or androgynous enough to catch my interest anyway. Women are much more versatile in their gender presentation. If I crave a masculine touch, there are many soft butch/masculine/androgynous women that can not just meet, but exceed my expectations for gender presentation…and I get the added benefit of actually being sexually interested and having the emotional and spiritual connection. Men, as a rule, are far more visual and physical and sex with them is pretty much centered around their ultimate goal of sticking their penis into a thing. Women are very capable of, and interested in, sex of all kinds, but they pay equal if not more attention to “the whole package.” Affection, foreplay, role playing if that’s your thing, scenery…and it’s a huge difference. I haven’t dated women either but from my limited experience with men, and spending time with women, it’s evident nonetheless.

          As for honesty, people are going to find out anyway, and I don’t want there to be hurt feelings if someone happens to catch me giving a man a kiss. Know what I mean? I hate the term biromantic, because it’s so speshul snowflake queerish, but if it’s helpful, consider me biromantic. I prefer homoflexible, because it’s explicit about my preference for women, but acknowledge an appreciation for men.

          Liked by 4 people

        • What you said about “in this age of lifelong decisions about identity being made on behalf of toddlers, we have forgotten that it’s normal to have fantasies” is so true. Childhood is a time to fantasize and play. Fantasy and play are an important part of child development and shouldn’t be interfered with or taken too seriously.

          When I was a child I had an imaginary twin brother named Johnny…who was a horse! Clearly, I did not need to be transitioned into a horse to match my fantasy twin.

          Adults then knew what adults now seem to have forgotten: kids will be kids. And they should be allowed to be kids.

          And I think healthy adolescents and adults shouldn’t give up fantasy as a integral part of their lives either, because our daydreams are a healthy part of our lives to guide us toward what we are desiring as well as a way of internally expressing ourselves, whether that fantasy is sexual or romantic or a way to deal with feelings or a way to think creatively or just generally entertaining.

          Anyway, I went off topic a bit there, but what I am trying to say is that I agree that fantasy in general should an important part of life for everybody, and that healthy people realize that fantasy is exactly that: fantasy.

          I keep saying this, because it is the basis of what Dirt and I are trying to say: I think the main thing in life, no matter what topic we are discussing, is to do the work to be honest with ourselves first so we can then live honestly with our partners, friends, and the rest of the word.

          Liked by 4 people

    • This is really interesting.
      Your description of your feelings toward men seem analogous to the bond that existed between Andrea Dworkin and John Stoltenberg. Would you agree?

      Many say that Andrea was straight because she married John, while both of them decleared themselves *gay* at some point, despite already living together at that time. How would you classify their relationship: “bi-romantic” ?

      Here is a link of John telling their story:
      http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/LivingWithAndrea.html

      Liked by 4 people

    • “Women who lean heterosexual choose butch female partners because they more closely resemble their preferred love interest.
      Her earliest interests were probably in men, but discovered lesbians later in life.”

      These two phrases are extraordinary.
      Isn’t this analogous to Sheila Jeffreys’ idea about butch – femme lesbianism?

      I wonder what Dirt would say about it? 🙂

      Liked by 4 people

      • Thanks for your comment!

        Dirt said she will comment later herself, but just wanted to say that we both think Sheila Jeffreys is….um, how can I say this?….full of horse manure about the topic of B/F. 🙂

        While I remain skeptical of bisexuality as a true orientation, I wanted to say that I am enjoying having these conversations and considering everyone’s thoughts and theories.

        So thanks to all who have commented!

        Liked by 6 people

      • Dirt says its complete nonsense based on heterosexual notions of what Butch is.

        As there are so few of us, where exactly are STRAIGHTBIANS meeting us at? There MIGHT be 1 Butch to every 25,000 STRAIGHTBIAN and I’m being generous in that stat. that isnt accounting for Butches who are in relationships with Femmes.

        STRAIGHTBIANS latch on to dykes who claim to be Butch then set about transitioning them into so form they can live with or let fuck them. So yes, not so different than what STRAIGHTBIAN Jeffreys thinks/writes.

        dirt

        Liked by 5 people

  6. I agree with Chonky, many bisexuals who lean homo are actually lesbians who weren’t ready to come out yet. Also, I think young lesbians might be attracted to bisexuality initially because they can explore themselves and avoid being locked into a label and all its expectations, something I think is healthy, especially if you are a survivor of sexual trauma. If you have experienced that trauma, make sure that your draw to a particular sex is because you love that sex…not because you hate the other one.

    Liked by 4 people

  7. I completely agree with you – I also don’t believe bisexuals exist as you define then (which, too me, is the most logical way to define what a bisexual is).

    Something I’m still trying to understand (at least, in my experience) is why bisexual women don’t seem to be going for other bisexuals, but always for lesbians and men.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Hi, Yes, Dirt and I were just talking about that phenomenon last night because we have both noticed it too: and it is indeed a good question: Why don’t bisexual women date each other? Why does it always seem that they only date lesbians and men? My guess: lesbians and men in this situation would be the “active” partners in bed. If they dated each other, nothing would ever happen, because they are both really straight. JMHO.

      Liked by 6 people

      • That cracked me up! I never thought about it that way 🙂 You know, I just asked the same question here: https://www.reddit.com/r/truelesbians/comments/4wbrqe/ive_been_called_a_biphobe_and_a_transphobe/
        Although I also asked why trans people don’t seem to be dating each other either, I don’t want to go off-topic, but it’s something that I don’t quite understand, either.

        At any rate, one of the most interesting replies from the subreddit so far has been that for a bisexual woman (and an MtF) dating a lesbian is like winning a highly-prized treasure, because a lesbian is a “pure” woman, who doesn’t define herself as opposite to/complementary of a man, but lives her own existence by relating only to herself and other women. The desire to “taint” such a woman derives from the patriarchal outrage at the very existence of any woman who doesn’t need men in her life. What are your thoughts about this?

        Liked by 4 people

        • Interesting!

          Well, my thoughts are that NO actual lesbian would ever, ever, ever, ever…EVER…date a MtF, so they are barking up the wrong proverbial tree to even try.

          But: of course, males, which is what MtFs are and will always be, do love a challenge, so I can totally see why they would THINK that dating a lesbian would be a conquest.

          Re: bisexuals wanting to date lesbians due to those reasons you noted: I am not so sure, I will have to think about it.

          I have seen online and real-life interactions between lesbians and self-proclaimed “bisexual” women (in these cases I am referring to, these were obviously really straight women who were saying they are bisexual), and it is obvious that there is a large degree of straight privilege being exercised in these interactions.

          It seems that often straight women think that we lesbians would be lucky to get them, rather than the other way around. This is evident in their casual joking about “If it doesn’t work out with (insert name of man-du-jour), I can always decide to be a lesbian”, etc.

          So, I haven’t seen that myself either online or in real life, but am curious to see if anyone else has heard of or noticed that…

          Liked by 3 people

        • That is my experience, too. I haven’t seen any lesbian dating a bisexual woman s equals – the bisexual always had some privileged/sheltered position in each relationship I’ve observed, precisely because she always seemed to be able to just “drop the lesbian” and go “back” to guys as an option that was constantly on the table, often repeated by the bisexual (openly or not) and a source of awful distress to the lesbian.

          I understand that ours are anecdotes, and I’d love to see actual stats (not sure how you would even do a reliable study on this), but the message I’m getting from my experiences and those of other lesbians is that we are not exactly happy with dating bisexual women and we don’t feel comfortable saying it openly because of stupid political correctness and queer theory mumbo jumbo. Lots of (mostly younger) lesbians even chastise other lesbians for speaking out.

          Liked by 4 people

        • Agree with all you said!

          I am not sure how the research would be conducted either, since it would almost have to be self-report (and IMHO, self-report research leaves a lot to be desired). But, yes, it would be very interesting to get some actual data on it.

          I know that anecdotal evidence can’t be taken as actual research, of course, but since many lesbians report the same experiences/feelings, I do think there is something to it.

          And, as you said, many lesbians are afraid to talk openly about this because of political correctness, etc.

          Just look at the resistance Dirt and I have gotten regarding the Straightbian issue, from so-called “lesbian feminist allies” (I think we probably hit too close to home for them and made them uncomfortable).

          Anyway, my point is that I know for a fact (because they have said it to me) that a lot of lesbians notice and think these things, but very few are willing to admit it publicly for fear of being chastised or of looking like they are being exclusionary.

          Liked by 5 people

        • I also take much issue with self-report (look at Kinsey), but yeah, what else can you do…

          About what you and Dirt do: I think you’re gutsy ladies. It’s like calling out the emperor’s new clothes to people who are policing each other into not wanting to see…

          Liked by 4 people

      • “… My guess: lesbians and men in this situation would be the “active” partners in bed. If they dated each other, nothing would ever happen, because they are both really straight. JMHO …
        Wow, this looks like a profound conclusion that deserves more research and study.
        If true, I believe, it could be the main idea of a full theory of bisexuality (or “non bisexuality” for that matter).

        Liked by 3 people

        • Yes, I would like to see some research about this too, but I think it would be very difficult to do research on this topic, because people would actually have to be honest in their self-report, not only with the researcher, but, much more importantly, they would have to be honest with THEMSELVES, about their true thoughts/behavior/etc.; and denial/rationalization/etc. would certainly throw a wrench into getting good data.

          Liked by 4 people

  8. Great post Saye, and I have to say that I agree with you. 🙂

    All the people I know that at some point have declared themselves bisexual, have ended up in straight relationships.
    This seems to be a well verified fact, that the 50/50 theory cannot explain.

    Perhaps a good discussion could be how much of this “unanimity” could be blamed on our patriarchal – constrained society.

    Liked by 4 people

      • Great point, I think that is possible too!

        Despite my on-going efforts to accurately define lesbianism, I wish society didn’t have to “label” at all, but sometimes it is necessary to do so.

        The reason I am so keen on the whole “real lesbian” issue is because I see so very many people misdefining and appropriating lesbian, which is harmful to the real lesbian community in multiple ways.

        Dirt and I are working on a joint post now which will discuss how many of the people who have been deemed “lesbian experts” are neither lesbian nor expert, and how this has damaged lesbians for many years and continues to do so.

        Liked by 3 people

      • I tend to believe that women’s sexuality is different from men’s sexuality in essential ways.

        I believe that heterosexual normativity (that prevails in our society) is more related with men’s sexuality, similarly to the tendency to classify and label individuals and groups of people.
        On the other hand, homosexuality seems more related with women’s sexuality and connected with the acceptance of diversity and individuality.

        The argument that hetero normativity is necessary for “reproduction” is quite weak IMO, because the sexual characteristics of the two sexes is very different.
        In this sense, the large number of people declaring themselves “hetero”, or “bi” but strongly centered in hetero behavior, seems like a socially constructed result, to some extent.

        Maybe in a fully non-repressive society, as you say, bisexuality would become a phase in some people’s life, before they acknowledged their “true sexual orientation”.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Thank you for your thoughts. Would you mind elaborating a bit on your paragraph about heteronormativity not being necessary for reproduction because of sexual characteristics of the two sexes being different, please? I am not exactly following the argument. Thanks!

          Liked by 3 people

        • @ infectedbloodcomics, Thanks!
          What I said is a reference to the common argument that women are naturally attracted to men (and vice-versa) due to the imperative of reproduction, therefore making heterosexuality a necessity.
          I think this is incorrect because one man can in principle have children with many women, and also there are hetero couples that cannot reproduce and now lesbian couples who have children through artificial insemination.
          In this case, the number of men *could be* much smaller than the present percentage (~ 50%) and the number of homosexual women much greater and humanity still have the adequate reproductive capacity to keep the present population or even grow.
          This extrapolation, based on the biological characteristics of both sexes, also has implications in terms of sexual orientation, I think.
          If we think of sexual attraction in terms of long term monogamous couples, the existence of a major population of one sex (e.g., females) would indicate that this particular sex has a greater potential for homosexual bonding, rather than hetero.
          This biological difference invalidates reproduction, per se, as argument for normative heterosexuality, in my opinion.

          Liked by 3 people

  9. Wow, this is so spot on. I’ve never thought of that.

    However, I must say I know a lot of women who came out as bisexuals and turned out to be actual lesbians. I think they started their sexual life with men and then realized that was not for them, and they actually liked girls.

    I think both sides actually exist: straightbians and people who think they are bisexuals but they are actually just starting to know they are lesbians.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi and thanks for commenting!

      I am very glad joannadeadwinter suggested this conversation because I am already learning a lot.

      I appreciate Chonky telling us that Martina had come out as bisexual, which I didn’t remember or didn’t know, because that added information to the discussion that I hadn’t known or addressed.

      So, yes, I agree that there may be some people who may initially say they are bisexual during the process of figuring themselves out and leaving options open.

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Pingback: Joannadeadwinter’s Response to Me on “Where the Bisexuals At?”: Ooh, Look, A Bisexual! | Saye Bennett

  11. I find this post quite sad, and again I know the article isn’t meant to offend, but it does contribute to erasing the fact that a person can be attracted to both genders. The point where it is mentioned “the differences between men and women are so significant that I cannot imagine someone being equally attracted to both[.]” is also quite puzzling. What differences are you referring to? Sexual, physiological, emotional? You perhaps may not be able to imagine, but that doesn’t mean you can extrapolate that thought to a presumption of bisexuals not truly being able to make a connection with either gender.

    The notion of male sexuality not being of interest either is also a glaring omission considering the Bisexuality argument is crucial to both genders. Joannadeadwinter’s comment on the men I found really upsetting as well: “And the bisexual men are some of the most shallow, most perverted I ever met.” If that has been her experience then fair enough, but don’t then suggest that Bisexual men in general share these traits.

    I would be interested to discuss your views further, especially considering you don’t believe bisexuality truly exists.

    Like

    • My disinterest in male sexuality is a very INTENTIONAL so-called “glaring omission”.

      As I say regularly, I write about Lesbians and Lesbian-related issues only.

      I don’t know about, nor do I remotely care about, male sexuality. Males can, and do, speak for themselves.

      While obviously bisexual behavior does exist ~ in the sense of people can, and do, have romantic/sexual relationships with both sexes ~ bottom line, no, I don’t believe that bisexuality is an inherent orientation like heterosexuality or homosexuality.

      Re: joannadeadwinter’s comment that you critiqued, she has every right to say exactly what her experiences/thoughts are. There’s always going to be someone who comes along and says “Not all men!”, and in this case, that person is you.

      I know many people disagree with me about this and numerous other issues. Isn’t be the first time, won’t be the last.

      I am (usually) willing to discuss most topics, but I am not inclined to do so with someone who begins a comment with “I find this post quite sad…”

      Liked by 2 people

  12. Hi there! Interesting post, though I’m afraid I have to disagree with your conclusion that bisexuality does not exist as an innate orientation. I’d love to be able to give you some sort of data or peer-reviewed evidence, I’ve heard of at least one study which suggested bisexual preferences were commonly present in its participants, but its name escapes me at the moment. The best evidence I can give you in leue of that is that I am a bisexual woman.

    This is something I kept secret for a long time and have only recently been open about, so it’s certainly not something I’ve used to get attention, or please a man, or otherwise bolster my reputation. In fact, I spent a long time wishing it wasn’t there, as I was unable to understand whether I was straight or gay. But now I understand that I’m neither. I know this because, from when I first hit puberty and became aware of my sexuality as a concept, I’ve had romantic feelings, physical attraction and desire to form relationships with both males and females (though not at the same time), and I now know that the word for that is bisexuality.

    I wish I could give you some compelling piece of evidence to prove that bisexuality is a true orientation, but all I can tell you is that I know that it is, because it is a reality that I live with every day.

    The point you make about being attracted to two different genders when men and women are so different is an interesting one – I find that I tend to have a ‘type’ for men and a ‘type’ for women, both of which are quite different. I appreciate that this may be a difficult thing to relate to if you’ve not experienced it – all I can say is that, just as you find it difficult to imagine being attracted to both sexes, I find it difficult to imagine not being attracted to both sexes, because attraction to one sex exclusively is not something I have personally experienced.

    There is one thing I would like to specifically critique which is that you say you would expect to see more bisexual women in relationships with women if bisexuals have a 50/50 chance of ending up with either sex. This seems to be committing the gambler’s fallacy by treating each woman’s relationship status as having cumulative probability rather than being independent events – if for example, you tossed a coin 4 times and each time it came up heads, you might expect that next throw would be more likely to come up tails, but this is not the case as each throw is an independent event and has a 50/50 chance of coming up heads. The same could be said for bisexual women – if three bisexual women end up in relationships with men, that doesn’t make it more likely that a forth bisexual woman will end up in a relationship with a woman, as each case is an independent event.

    It’s also worth considering that some bisexual women in a relationship with another woman, or seeking a relationship with another woman, may choose to publicly identify as a lesbian, as identifying as bisexual can sometimes provoke hostility or rejection, making it more difficult for a bisexual woman to find and keep a female partner.

    Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. I’ll close on a final thought – you said you’d never a met a bisexual who wasn’t really a straight woman. Well, now you have 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  13. I think a lot of “bisexual” women are women who are trying to appear cool, sexy, edgy, and/or open-minded. I get the impression that they’re boy-crazy and very competitive with other women, and their bisexuality is a way of “winning” the guy and dealing with their own jealousy issues. It’s also a way of signifying to others that you’re not prejudiced; I think the idea is that you’re attracted to personalities rather than appearances, and this attitude carries over into other aspects of your life. I think that real bisexuals exist, but that it’s not as simple as what people claim to identify as. I don’t want to offend, so feel free to delete my comment if it does.

    Liked by 1 person

      • I want to explain my jealousy comment since I’m not sure if I expressed my thoughts well. They’re jealous as in, “I’m not jealous, I’m checking her out! She’s a 7, she’s a 9…” They act the opposite of how they feel in order to hide their real feelings. It’s also a way of putting other women in their place by judging and objectifying them the same way men do, while trying to elevate themselves in men’s eyes at the same time. A simplification, but that’s the feeling I get.

        Liked by 1 person

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