Always A Lesbian

lezzie-symbol

Twitter is a constant source of inspiration (or rather, consternation) regarding topics for posts.

Today’s post came about due to a battle that Dirt had last night with a purported “lesbian”. This purported “lesbian” claimed that nobody is a lesbian until we have had sex with a woman.

So, to give an example of this thinking (which closely corresponds to her own example):

To illustrate this woman’s idea, let’s say that a lesbian has sex for the very first time on her 25th birthday.  So, in this woman’s mind, our example was NOT a lesbian from birth up though the age of 24 years, 11 months, and 28-31 days, depending on her month of birth.

Then poof!  On her 25th birthday she does the naughty deed and wow!, our example suddenly becomes a lesbian at that oh-so-magical moment.

Hogwash.

When confronted by Dirt on the obvious flaws in this thinking, and when even given examples that refute this bizarre idea, this woman, like so many people on Twitter, got upset, spouted a ton of nonsense about “compulsory heterosexuality” and said the assumption is always that everybody is straight, and finally refused to discuss it anymore.

So I will break it down here in case there is any confusion lurking about.

Lesbians do not “magically become lesbian” at the precise moment we have sex.  We were lesbian all along.

In fact, we don’t need to even have sex to be a lesbian; we could choose celibacy if we wanted to, and yet we would still be lesbians.

Same principle with gay men; same principle with EVERYBODY.

Let’s look at a similar example with a straight woman.  Let’s say our hypothetical straight woman has decided to “save herself for marriage” (as the saying goes), deciding to be celibate until her wedding night.

Our fictitious straight woman meets the man of her dreams and they become engaged, and sure enough, they do wait until their wedding night to consummate their relationship.

Was our example NOT STRAIGHT until her wedding night?  Did she have to have sex to “become straight”?

Of course not.  She was heterosexual all along.

As another hypothetical example, let’s say a young lesbian had not yet had sex, but she plans to seduce a special lady this coming weekend. Tragically, she gets hit in the head by a softball on Thursday evening, and sadly dies immediately. Since she died before ever having sex, does that make her any less of a lesbian?

Of course not.  She was a lesbian all along.

What about a lesbian who never, for whatever reason, dates?  Maybe she is too shy to get out into the dating world, maybe she is a workaholic and doesn’t take the time to meet a partner, but for whatever reason, this woman never has sex before she dies. Guess what?  She is still a lesbian.

One more hypothetical example to illustrate this point, and I will be done.

In our next example, let’s say a young straight male teenager (who has not yet had sex) is marooned on an island because he is the sole survivor in a horrific maritime accident.  He is stuck on this island, alone forever until he eventually croaks. Since he never had sex before becoming hopelessly isolated on the island by himself, does that make him any less straight?

Answer: of course not. He was straight until the day he died. He was just likely very frustrated.

Being a lesbian isn’t about having sex.  Our identities don’t spring up out of thin air on the day we first make love.  I was a lesbian when I was a virgin, and I would still be a lesbian if I had still to this day never had sex at all. Always a lesbian.

This is basic common sense, folks.

18 thoughts on “Always A Lesbian

  1. I agree with your premise on this, because I think that sexuality is an innate quality of a person, although I think it might take time for people to come to terms with it…
    …or rather, fulfilling of their destiny, so-to-speak.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Twitter is the biggest waste of time ever. Is chock-full of idiots and the character limit doesn’t help communication at all. I honestly have no idea how anyone can follow, let alone have, a conversation there. Yet, no matter what, is very important to respond to such idiocies. Good on you, Dirt, you rock!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Ha! Yeah, Dirt doesn’t back down!

      Yes, I agree Twitter is incredibly difficult to follow sometimes, particularly if multiple people answer one tweet so it all goes off into separate “threads”, then nobody knows what the heck is going on and things are taken out of context.

      Plus, like you said, the character limit makes it really difficult to express the entire point you’re trying to make, and difficult for others to understand it also.

      So, sometimes, I think people may agree more than it seems but by that time it is over, everybody is mostly too angry to care anymore.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Yes, very similar! I am always flabbergasted by such thinking. That’s why I said “save herself for marriage” in a facetious way because I think that is yet another ridiculous saying. It seems people often think life doesn’t truly begin until sex occurs.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. I love this particular post Saye. “We could choose celibacy if we wanted to” I have always been curious as to if this was acceptable to your partner or not. Is there a name for a couple who chooses not to have sex?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi, I don’t know whether there’s a specific name for a couple who chooses not to have sex; but I think that there are probably some couples out there that have that “understanding” for various reasons, or, probably, in some cases, it is not really discussed outright, but they just rarely/never have sex.

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  4. I find this discussion about bisexuality very fascinating. The concept of bisexuality is completely foreign to me; my emotional and romantic life has been entirely focused on women as long as I can remember. However, my first girlfriend had not been with a woman before me, and called herself bisexual. She had has a relationship with a man before me who was very dear to her, and she felt like saying she was a lesbian negated the importance of that relationship. Thirty years after we parted (for entirely unrelated reasons), she has only dated women, is now married to a woman and identifies as a lesbian who is “theoretically bisexual” except she has no interest in dating men. {Shrug} We all want the ability to define our own experience. What I *don’t* accept is that we cannot make decisions about our intimate relationships without being labeled “phobic” or “hateful.” I have *no* desire to live with, be intimate with, share my life with men/penises/testosterone. I define myself as a lesbian, meaning *my* intimate life revolves around women (okay, one woman, but you get the picture).

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi, Sorry for the delay in answering, I’ve been sick for a few days now (actually, I still am sick… ugh!!).

      Thanks for sharing your example about your ex. Always interesting to hear about real-life experiences.

      I agree that lesbians don’t have any desire whatsoever to date ANY male, even one who identifies as trans and has had his junk cut off. Lesbians do not want males. Period.

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  5. “He was just likely very frustrated.” – I’m not an expert, but I think that when you know you’ll never see your family and friends again and you’re all alone on unknown island, without any access to safe water and food, probably surrounded by wild animals, frustration from not having sex yet is the last thing that a hypothetical teenager could feel in this situation. 😛 (I get the joke 😉 I just don’t really like stereotypes about any gender, used jokingly or not, but it’s just my personal feeling.)
    This post reminded me a conversation I had with one of my co-workers. She saw my female friend and her girlfriend visiting me while I was working and when they went back to home, she started a long monologue about lesbianism being a choice and a deadly sin. She said that if I cared for my friend, I would try to find her a good man or something like that. I asked her why she thought it was a choice? If people can choose their sexual orientation, it would mean all straight people have chosen to be attracted to opposite sex, wouldn’t it? But straight people don’t make that choice, they just fell in love in someone who happens to be a man or a woman, no one have to think for hours whether they want to date males or females. My co-worker said she didn’t agree with me, because she had chosen to be straight. I got a little confused and asked her to told what she meant by it. Was she attracted to women but decided to not pursue her homosexual desires? And she said ‘yes’. I just muttered ‘I’m sorry’ and ended the conversation, because I was REALLY sorry and saddened.
    I’ve always had a feeling that she secretly didn’t like her boyfriend. Whenever he tried to hug her or kiss her, she looked like she was obliged to it, not wanting it. She was still talking about how lucky she was she found a good man, but I’ve never seen her actually paying attention to him (we all work in the same place). I thought maybe they had a hard time in their relationship or maybe she’s just tired and needs a break, but after this conversation I couldn’t really believe that she truly loved her boyfriend.
    A lesbian is a lesbian even if she had never occasion or a will to have sex. And a lesbian is a lesbian even if she have chosen not to be a lesbian. ‘Not a choice’ always works in both ways.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Hi again, and thanks for commenting!

      I totally agree with what you are saying about a lesbian is a lesbian even if she never has sex, and with what you are saying about the idiotic argument from straight people that being gay/lesbian is a “choice” when they clearly don’t feel that being heterosexual is a “choice”. People who say such things don’t seem to understand the obvious fallacy in their thinking.

      I do have a bit of an issue with your intro into the comment re: having a problem with one of my examples used in this post, so I wanted to address that, please:

      Yes, you’re right that I was being facetious with ALL of the examples.

      This post is about the fact that lesbians are lesbian regardless of whether or not we have had sex yet (and same principle applies to everyone else too).

      Notice that I didn’t say that being trapped on an island would not be stressful and scary in MANY ways (because it’s already pretty darn obvious that it would be stressful in many ways, LOL).

      This post isn’t intended to be a fictional 300-page novel about a boy trapped on a deserted island and how he talked to coconuts and learned to build a fire and missed his parents.

      That particular example is meant to say that he would be heterosexual regardless of whether or not he ever had sex; that’s it.

      Anyone who knows teenage boys likely already knows that the so-called “stereotype” of them thinking about sex is (typically) accurate.

      Whether or not anyone in post-Queer-theory language-twisting self-defining anything-goes society wants to believe it, there are some actual differences between males and females, and some of the so-called sex “stereotypes” persist because there is (some) truth to them.

      Most sitcoms rely on the “stereotypical” differences between male and female, and the reason is that most people can relate to that humor in some way…because there is (some) TRUTH to it.

      I noticed that you didn’t mind me “stereotyping” lesbians (with the softball joke) or “stereotyping” a young straight woman (with the “saving herself for marriage” joke), but God Forbid there be some “stereotyping” of a male!

      So, if you or anyone else wants to be offended by my examples in this post, by all means, go for it. (I am getting accustomed to offending people, even though I don’t like doing so).

      But if so, please try to muster up some righteous indignation for the poor lesbians who were “stereotyped” or for the poor young straight women who were “stereotyped” at the same time you are bemoaning “stereotyping” the fictional male character.

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      • Why did you assume that I was offended? I stated that I didn’t like that sentence, explained why and emphasized that it is just my personal feeling, so I don’t find it morally wrong or REALLY hurtful. I think most of your readers will find this funny and that’s okay with me. Making you feeling upset or guilty wasn’t my intention, I’m just an incurable complainer, even if overall I enjoy things (and I enjoyed this post, sorry if you got an impression I disliked it because of one joke). I just mean that I don’t like many things: colour yellow, east European cuisine or any flowers besides daisies, but I’m obviously not offended by it. If I were, my life would be a nightmare. 😛
        Of course I didn’t mean that you have to write another Robinson Crusoe story, I completely understand what you wanted to explain in this post. Please note I live in a country where gender stereotypes are taken Very Seriously (so Seriously, that I feel obliged to use capital letters here), so I’m probably way more defensive about them. I don’t know how bad are things in USA, but here men are seriously humiliated when they don’t want or can’t have sex… and that way of thinking often hurts women too. I was once called stupid because after one party I accompanied one drunk girl home, instead of having sex with her. What a missed occasion! Was I a faggot? No? So what was wrong with me? (I think the answer is: nothing, but there are very bad issues with mentality in my country.)
        Actually, I wouldn’t count ‘saving oneself for marriage’ as a stereotype, I’ve just thought this is something that some women do, but mostly don’t? And to be honest, I have never heard before about that ‘softball lesbian’ stereotype. Again: note that I was born and raised in completely different cultural circle. This may be a thing in North America or West Europe, but definitely not here. The most popular stereotype about lesbians here is that they’re ugly creatures who weren’t able to get the D, so… yes, I would probably NOT be pleased if someone used it even in jokingly way.
        I think it’s also important to differentiate between stereotypes that are funny, annoying and hurtful. For example, people often think that my countrymen are completely immune to alcohol and can drink an unimaginable amount of it. Which is… actually mostly true, since all absurdly high recorded blood alcohol levels that I know belong to people of my nation. 😛 Anyway, I mostly find the jokes and stereotypes about that funny, unless some foreign people press me really hard to drink with them, because c’mon, Slavic are not meant to say no when offering any sort of alcohol. This could be annoying, yet definitely not hurtful. But I can’t help feeling offended, when someone assume I’m a potential thief, a sponger, someone completely close-minded, fanatic Catholic etc. just because of my nationality.
        And yes, in any of the stereotypes mentioned above there is some TRUTH, but do you think I have no right to at least say I don’t like them? I don’t know if anyone’s lesbianism was denied because that hypothetical lesbian doesn’t play softball, but I WAS accused of thievery because of some stereotypes and when my innocence was proven, the accuser didn’t even apologize, because she felt completely justified. I was an obvious suspect, and the fact that I wasn’t even nearby when her necklace was gone didn’t matter. 😛 So I think not all stereotypes are hurtful in the same way and while some can be treated as a joke, some other shouldn’t be.
        But just as I mentioned, we live in very different environments and face very different problems, therefore some things you find void may provide serious issues here and vice versa. I’d rather ask for explanations before making an assumption and I ask you for the same. I guess while my English is not that bad, sometimes we just can misunderstood each other because of some cultural differences. I’m talking here about that paragraph:
        “I notice that you didn’t mind me “stereotyping” lesbians (with the softball joke) or “stereotyping” a young straight woman (with the “saving herself for marriage” joke), but God Forbid there be some “stereotyping” of a male!”
        Honestly, I just didn’t know about that lesbian stereotype, and despite of underdevelopment of my society, it’s not longer required for a woman to be a virgin before the marriage, actually it happens rarely know (is this still a thing in the United Stated? I’m surprised.)
        But I suspect that even if I know about the stereotypes you’ve used here and it would have annoyed me for some reason, I’d probably stay silent, because I think I have no right to lecture a lesbian how to talk about lesbians. 😛 Unless it would be some completely crazy and hurtful things, but homophobia is seriously the last thing I’m expecting to see here. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

        • Hi again, thanks for replying so quickly, and I appreciate your thoughtful response.

          You are right, it is very easy to misunderstand or miscommunicate over the internet for many reasons; language, lack of facial expressions for context, different cultures, different meanings, difficult to convey emotions typing, etc. etc. etc.

          I should always remember this; because I do know internet communication is fraught with difficulty, but it’s easy to forget sometimes when I’m in a hurry when I am trying to answer.

          So, I appreciate your response and the opportunity to clear up any miscommunication.

          Yes, lesbians playing softball is a “stereotype” here, LOL! Of course, like with all “stereotypes”, not all of us play softball (including me, I would promptly get injured if I tried), but it’s enough of a correlation that we joke about it.

          I think in some religious subgroups, waiting for marriage to have sex is still a thing (along with campaigns for abstinence), but I doubt many actually do wait.

          Or they have some elaborate thought process to justify “being a virgin”, for example, I have a cousin who declared she was still a virgin unless ALL of the following occurred AT THE SAME TIME: flowers, candlelight, champagne, chocolates, music, AND sex. So, in her elaborate rationalization, if even one of that checklist was missing, it “didn’t count” and she was “still a virgin” on her wedding night. 🙂

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      • It’s okay – actually miscommunication happens to me also offline, since I have rather monotonous voice and one of a very rare occasion when I raise it a little bit is when I face a passionate, theoretical discussion. I do it completely subconsciously, but people sooner or later realize that I speak louder than at the beginning of the conversation and almost always assume that I’m angry. I’m not angry, I’m just really enjoying the discourse and therefore I got kind of excited. 😛 It bothers me that many find it hard to believe I can really find a disputation where all of the participants have different opinion than me entertaining.
        I guess in this case it is also my fault. 🙂 I heard several times that not native users of English often write in way that native users perceive as cold, annoyed and uninterested, because ‘our’ English is often emotionless – in a bad way. And I think it may be true, I know the definition of words, but it’s harder to guess how all these words will ‘feel like’, when put together. I appreciate that you posted my comment. One of the worse plagues of the Internet is that people are so scared of making a mistake they hide every evidence of them misunderstanding or misinterpreting something. I’m always happy to see people open to cultured conversation.
        I talked with my lesbian friend about that softball stereotype. She was astonished as well, but I learned that ‘our’ lesbians are stereotypicaly very sporty as well… but they prefer to play soccer. 😉 I guess it surprises us because softball is very unpopular here. I think I’ve never met a person who enjoy playing it!
        When you mentioned it, I remembered about some american teenage idol (I don’t remember which one, to many of them are introduced to music market every year!) wearing a silver ring, which was supposed to symbolize her virginity being protected until marriage? I had the feeling that I heard about it in TV, but I can’t remember any details. I think it was a Big Deal for a moment, but I wasn’t interested enough to learn more about it.
        While I understand that many people want to have their first time with that ‘someone special’, who love and care for them, I don’t see why virginity itself is so highly valued. And yes, it leads to some weird beliefs, like your cousin magical ability to stay virgin if she doesn’t eat chocolate while having sex. 😀 Not so long ago I discovered the term “vaginity” and I really don’t know what being a virgin means anymore.

        Liked by 1 person

        • That’s interesting what your lesbian friend said about the lesbian softball stereotype not being true there but that many lesbians there like soccer; which makes total sense since softball is unpopular there ~ so, I learned something new today thanks!

          I worked with an international nonprofit for many years and was a moderator of the forums so I have learned (repeatedly, LOL, because sometimes I still need to be reminded!) that misunderstandings can happen very easily when communicating on the internet, particularly when people have different 1st languages and cultures.

          I can read French and German a little (just enough to know the basics to read a menu, signs, headlines, simple stories, and the like) and I would hate to have to try to converse in either of those languages! I wouldn’t be able to use (or probably even understand) colloquial sayings/slang and sentence structure etc. is very different.

          I was reminded of this when someone started Tweeting to me in German a couple of nights ago, and I could read it fine, but had trouble trying to formulate a response.

          My point is, thanks for the reminder to take all of that into consideration when reading and replying to comments.

          And, yes, there is some movement where girls are wearing rings to signify they are “saving themselves for marriage”, I am not sure what that campaign is called, but I have seen references to it.

          Thanks again for commenting & for the reminder! 🙂

          Like

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