Butches, Stripping, and Straightbians…Oh My

For a couple of days now, I have been in a series of heated debates regarding the question of whether Butches would ever be strippers. (Answer: Not just no, but HELL NO).

In response to my statement that the probability of a Butch stripping would be approximately a snowball’s chance in Hell, I received this flippant tweet, presumably to “prove” that Butches do strip:

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Problem is: The woman depicted here is most certainly NOT Butch, and most likely, she’s not even ANY sort of Lesbian either. This tweeter, along with a plethora of others, incorrectly assume that if any woman cuts her hair short and dons a suit (or any other so-called “male attire”) and simply makes the claim she is Butch, she is magically (POOF!) suddenly Butch.

But it doesn’t work that way. Not even close. Butches are born, not made.  Butch is NOT a performance, a costume, a political stance, or an act, and it is majorly offensive when people appropriate and misrepresent Lesbian lives.

A true Butch would NEVER strip. She would literally die first, and that is NOT an exaggeration.

What gives me the right to make such a broad claim, you ask? Because I am a Femme Lesbian. Because I am married to a Butch, and have known other Butches. Because I have been in the Lesbian community for many, many years now, and have seen so many dykes & Straightbians call themselves Butch when they clearly weren’t. Because I happen to have a lot more knowledge about this topic that most people.

(Yes, I said it, I mean it, and I don’t care if you mistakenly think that is arrogant, because, yes, I do, in fact, know more about this topic than most people).

Anyway, I won’t bore you with giving you a play-by-play of every argumentative hetsplaining tweet or every Straightbian arguing with Lesbians about OUR OWN LIVES. It would take a dissertation to just explain the last couple of days.

But let’s examine one striking example of the sort of ignorance and attitude real Lesbians have to put up with:

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Let’s examine this snippet. Seemingly out-of-the-blue, a relatively new “feminist” account with 14 followers at the time and a handful of tweets crawls out of some hole to randomly bust my chops?

Hmmmm…it seems likely that this is a familiar troll in a new disguise, but regardless of this person’s true identity, automatically jumping to a racial connotation when race was not even mentioned is an incredibly transparent attempt to derail the actual point (“Butches don’t strip…period.”) by implying I am somehow inexplicably being racist by talking about a Lesbian issue.

Obviously, that idiotic crap doesn’t work with me. “Stick to the topic or shut up” is my motto.

(And, no, there are not any Butches of any race stripping for a living, now or ever).

Moving on to the next ridiculous assertion from our wannabe know-it-all:

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Okay, so calling me a racist didn’t work, so what does this buffoon do now? Hmmm…Oh, I know, let’s bring RAPE into it! THAT always derails the discussion!

This “rape culture” statement is completely off-topic and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, so, again, this is an obvious attempt to discredit what we are saying by twisting what we are actually saying to try to make it mean something completely unrecognizable.

This is actually a very common Straightbianfeministploy:

If you have no argument and/or simply don’t understand the topic, it’s time to bring up any of the following to try to derail the conversation:

  • Rape or Rape Culture
  • The Patriarchy
  • The “Trans Cult”
  • Racism
  • Sexism
  • Any other “ism”
  • Discrimination
  • Violence Against Women
  • MRAs
  • Men in dresses “forcing”/”coercing” Lesbians to have sex with them (Not happening)

Well, those tactics may work with some people, but they are certainly not going to work with me or Dirt.

Again, the topic at hand was simple: Butch Lesbians and stripping. This topic has nothing to do with racism, rape, etc.

Back to the point: Do Butches strip?

And the final answer is: Butch Lesbians would never strip, regardless of race, age, audience, era, or circumstance.

The end.

39 thoughts on “Butches, Stripping, and Straightbians…Oh My

  1. I really was hoping my dubious professional past wouldn’t catch up to me. I keed! I keed! You’re right! I would rather be chewing on barbed wire than strip for a living.

    I’ll add a new “ism”. Stupidism or how about willful ignorancism, or maybe they just want to argue for the sake of arguing and seeing their name in lights?.

    Glad you are taking these ijits on, so WE don’t have to.

    Liked by 5 people

  2. Hello – I’m new to your blog but I’ve read through a few of your posts and I will say that I am a bit confused by your catagorical generalizations. You really don’t appear to leave any room for people who don’t fit whatever box you think they should be in. It seems to me that any time someone makes a claim about “ALL” of any group of people they are in rough waters.
    Re this particular topic … Are you saying that butch women wouldn’t strip for men or wouldn’t strip … period?
    Also, I don’t think it’s fair of you to decide who can call themselves a butch and who cannot. I wouldn’t want anyone else taking it upon themselves to decide what I classify myself as or to tell me I am wrong about whatever I call myself no matter how much they know or think they know about a topic.

    Like

    • Yes, I am saying that Butches would not strip…for anybody. Dysphoria. Read up on it.

      And yes, I do have a right to say something about people who falsely represent themselves as Lesbian and/or speak for Lesbians — I don’t care what people do, but don’t call it LESBIAN unless it is.

      Same thing with Butch or Femme. Cutting your hair short doesn’t make anyone a Butch or a Lesbian.

      People have no right to appropriate and/misrepresent other people’s lives. Rachel Dolezal falsely represented herself as Black and spoke for Black people. That was very wrong.

      And the same applies to those who falsely call themselves Lesbian and/or speak out of turn for/about us.

      If you don’t like what I write, don’t read it. If you think it is okay to misrepresent, hurt, and lie to and about Lesbians, you are dead wrong.

      Do whatever you want, fuck whoever you want…but you have no right to say you are Lesbian unless you actually are.

      Period.

      Liked by 3 people

      • I am so sick of these people who want to “identify” as whatever the heck they want, claim that sexual orientation is fluid, etc. Saye is right. Words have meaning and it is flat out wrong to say that we don’t have a right to say anything about all the pretendbians who are harming us and our reputation. Orientation is not fluid or an “identity”.

        Liked by 4 people

      • I agree that misrepresenting/hurting/lying about etc any group is wrong. Maybe you’ve done this before and I just wasn’t around to read it but what would you say makes someone a real lesbian and therefore qualifies them to speak on behalf of other lesbians?

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        • Yes, I have written about it extensively, but Lesbians know from an early age that we are different. It is something we are born as; it is NOT a choice or a political decision. Anyone who says being a Lesbian is a choice is obviously not one, including so-called “political lesbians”, “queer femmes”, etc.

          Liked by 3 people

        • PS: And I forgot to address your question about “what qualifies” me or someone else to speak about Lesbians. I am a freaking LESBIAN, that is what. And other REAL Lesbians would have the same right.

          Why is it that there are about 3 ZILLION books, articles, websites, etc. which talk about heterosexual lives and heterosexual relationships yet nobody thinks to question them — So why are you not chasing all of those folks down and asking them what right they have to speak about heterosexuals?

          You probably won’t be able to see this, but your questions are offensive and presumptuous. A better question is what right do you have to question me or any other Lesbian about our lives?

          Liked by 3 people

        • You appear to be getting very worked up over the things I said or questions I raised. I didn’t come here looking to argue. I do, however, assume that when someone writes something online (be it on a blog or facebook or whatever) they are either inviting or at the very least open to some discussion about the things they said. I never specifically asked you what qualifies YOU to speak on anything. I said that you seem to have a very narrow definition of what makes someone a real lesbian and that only real lesbians have any authority to speak on anything lesbian related. In that vein, I asked “what makes someone a real lesbian and therefore qualifies them to speak on behalf of other lesbians?”
          The point I was making all along since we started this back and forth is that while you may be correct with a lot of the things you say, I have found that there are often exceptions to rules but you seem to not leave any room for that in your writing. You speak in a lot of absolutes.
          I am sure people do question a lot of the writings that are done about hetero relationships. I don’t care if they do or not. I won’t seek them out just as I didn’t seek you out and I certainly didn’t chase you down just to question your rights. I found your blog my accident and thought it was interesting.
          My questions have not at all been presumptuous (since they were based on things you said) and they were not meant to be offensive. I do realize though that if someone says they are offended it is not my job to tell them that they are wrong.
          You have every right to feel how you feel and think how you think and write about whatever you want to write about. Going back to your initial reply when you said that I don’t have to read this blog if I don’t like it you are right about that but I am fully capable of finding your writing interesting and/or informative and/or entertaining even if I don’t agree with 100% of what you say. If you have no desire to have discussion then you are fully capable of not allowing comments on your posts or only allowing comments from people who agree with you on everything all the time.

          Liked by 1 person

        • No…I’m not “worked up” but honestly, I am sick of straight people assuming that they have the right to say whatever they want to us and tell us what’s what and I am sure it is showing that I am at the end of my rope with the hetsplaining. (I’m not talking about you specifically here…I mean in general).

          And yes, I am fully aware that I don’t have to publish comments. I routinely delete any comments that are threatening, bizarre, off-topic, etc. I do choose to publish comments like yours, as long as they are polite.

          I never said you or anyone has to agree. In fact, I have said numerous times that I know a lot of people don’t and that is okay.

          What I have a problem with is the automatic “I don’t think it’s fair…” and “Who are you to say…” etc. Statements like that automatically set up and argumentative tone, I think.

          I stand by what I said earlier that I seriously doubt you would go to a straight blog and said something along the lines of “I don’t think it’s fair that you said so-and-so is a heterosexual. Who are you to know about heterosexuals? Who made you an expert on straight people? Etc.” Not because you question a specific point that was being made such as dating advice….that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about questioning the whole thing: the blogger himself/herself, the premise of the blog itself, the right of the blogger to act as an “expert”, etc. I stand by what I said that people don’t do that. Straight people don’t do that and we don’t either.

          But straight people telling me or Dirt that we don’t have the right to speak out for Lesbians or that we don’t know what we are talking about etc. ~ they are a dime a dozen.

          I have been writing about what it means to be a Lesbian, some personal, some philosophical for about a year and a half now; Dirt has been writing for almost a decade. That’s a lot of writing.

          So: There is no way to adequately summarize the answers to your questions in a reply to a comment, but I alluded to the basics in an earlier reply:

          Lesbians know from a fairly early age that we are different; even later-in-life Lesbians uniformly report that they knew early, but just didn’t act on it until later. So, that is one of the biggest clues to whether someone is really a Lesbian or a Straightbian. Another clue is their opinion on whether being a Lesbian is a choice. If she says it is, it is safe to assume they are NOT a Lesbian, because a Lesbian would know that it is NOT a choice for us. Another clue is if she references feminism in any way (in relation to being a Lesbian); of course, Lesbians can be feminists too, so that is not what I am saying. Rather, what I am saying is that if she talks about her own “Lesbianism” in relation to “fighting the Patriarchy” or “rejecting heterocentrism” or a “political act” or any other such nonsense…she is not a Lesbian.

          And most of what has been written about Lesbians is either the “anything-goes-I-can-identify-as-whatever-I-say-and-change-it-tomorrow” variety or the “I-am-rejecting-men-so-now-I-am-a-Lesbian” or the “Lesbian-is-a-political-act-and-being-het-is-sleeping-with-the-enemy” variety…ALL of which are completely inaccurate for real Lesbians.

          The other thing is, your first comment said: ” I don’t think it’s fair of you to decide who can call themselves a butch and who cannot. I wouldn’t want anyone else taking it upon themselves to decide what I classify myself as…” Well, Butch and Femme are very specific Lesbian terms, They aren’t something that can or should be used willy-nilly. They aren’t something to “classify yourself” as. They have actual meaning and it’s offensive (yes, that word again) when people assume that “Butch” (or “Femme” or “Lesbian” itself) are just adjectives that ANYBODY can choose to call themselves. We are not something to “identify as”. You can’t just cut your hair short and wear some Doc Martens and call yourself Butch (and be accurate about it). Of course, people do just that ALL THE TIME. And it is wrong. It is misleading. It is inaccurate. It is appropriating someone else’s life and culture.

          Liked by 3 people

        • I have had many back and forth discussions with people on their blogs on a variety of topics. From autism, to confederate flags to politics to religion to LGBT topics. I write about and read about and comment on whatever I find interesting. It just so happens than straight romantic relationships don’t fall into that category for me. With that – I will leave this post alone now. We agree on some things and disagree on others so at this point we will just keep going around in circles if I keep talking. Unless you block me I will keep reading and may or may not comment again on something else.

          Like

        • You are welcome to comment, and I apologize if I made you feel you weren’t. My point about people not commenting on straight blogs, books (etc.) is that heterosexuality is so ubiquitous that nobody would think to question the author’s ability to speak about heterosexuality. I mean, flip channels or search for books and that is pretty much all you will see.

          I think the reason straight people feel free to comment on ours is both straight privilege and the fact that being Lesbian is somewhat of a “novel” topic in that everybody thinks they know what it means — but there are an awful lot of misconceptions.

          Liked by 3 people

        • One of my many unrealized projects, when I was young (Aaah!), was to publish an ABC of heterosexuality, gaysplaining what it was all about to faggots and dykes like me. I was full of grand theories, but found the field research a little too daunting.

          Liked by 2 people

  3. To the commenter who is criticizing Saye for having the nerve to speak out against the damage being done to lesbians: who the hell died and made you God? No, butches don’t strip and if you had any clue whatsoever about it, you wouldn’t even be asking. Yes, lesbians have to right to criticize the women who have been fucking us over since forever. People like you are the ones who are erasing our identity with your anything goes people can call themselves anything crap.

    Liked by 3 people

    • I assume you are talking about me. (If you are not then I apologize for sticking my nose here). But if you are talking about me then let me clarify a couple of things. I agree that the writer has the right to speak out against any damage she sees being done. I think that lesbians have a responsibility to speak out against damage being done. I do not think it’s as simple as “anything goes people can call themselves anything”. It is wrong to mis-represent yourself or any group of people. What I was saying is that from reading this blog it seems to me that Saye has a fairly narrow criteria of who she thinks qualifies as a real lesbian (or butch/femme etc) and anyone who doesn’t check off each of the markers on her list gets called a “straightbian” and it’s not meant as a compliment.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I know you are talking to someone else, but I wanted to address your comment about my “narrow” definitions.

        Yes, they are “narrow” because they are specific.

        I can and do say when something is BULLSHIT and women who fall in the categories I described above (“political lesbians”, women who like dick but decide they are a “Lesbian” for any reason, etc.) are, in fact, FULL OF BULLSHIT.

        You are correct that Straightbian is most certainly NOT a compliment. They have harmed Lesbian lives in a huge variety of ways, and they don’t deserve compliments.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Yeah, I was talking to you but was also frustrated with folks hetsplaining on twitter too at the time. I know it is hard to get but lesbian is not an identity. It is not whatever people claim to be. Most others you will read about will say whatever people want to hear.

        I for one am thankful that Saye and Dirt tell the truth even when they get tons of crap for it.

        Most lesbians think all the identity politics shit is just that (shit) but most of us are too busy living our lives offline to put ourselves out there to call BS on it. I should do more myself but i just don’t have much spare time.

        My point is that what you are incorrectly calling narrow is the truth. We can’t all just become whatever we want. We are what we are. Sexual orientation is not fluid, it is not an identity, it is something we are born with. Same thing with butch, femme, or any other type of dyke. We aren’t just pretending and those who are deserve to be called out.

        Liked by 3 people

        • “Narrow”, my fat ass. Is it narrow to call a dog a dog, or more specifically, specify a German Shepherd? It’s not narrow to define something. Either a dog is a full German Shepherd or it is not. Nobody is going on the dog fancy websites and telling the dog experts they are narrow in their definitions. SMH.

          Liked by 3 people

        • Funny you say that because I was thinking along somewhat similar lines earlier.

          It seems people get offended when Dirt and I define Lesbian & related terms, but almost everything in life has a definition…animals, plants, objects, people…

          I refuse to drop this topic because people WANT to believe that anybody can magically become whatever they say they are.

          Liked by 3 people

        • Ha! I’ll let Meaghan answer that, but my thought is that the German Shepherd should be proud to be a German Shepherd and a Chihuahua should be proud to be a Chihuahua and so on. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

        • romantepner, lol. I think the German Shepherd would like to be called a German Shepherd only. Nothing wrong with being what you are. *grins*

          Liked by 2 people

  4. The same old Hetsplained Lesbian bullshit, only this STRAIGHTBIAN figured if she went back in the past far enough she could escape Lesbian Truth! Think again honey! THINK. FUCKING. AGAIN!

    Dirt

    Liked by 4 people

  5. Please don’t take this as mere rhetoric. It’s a genuine question. How can it be that lesbians don’t know whether the woman they are in bed with is gay or straight? Slutty as we are, gay men often have sex with straight men, but we ALWAYS know what’s going on. True enough, some hyper-butch women make it a point of pride to “seduce” straight girls, but I think that falls without our purview, as does the equivalent for creepy homosexual men. Any thoughts?

    Liked by 1 person

    • I think the main reason Lesbians can be fooled by straight women is the prevalent myth that any woman can “become a Lesbian.” So we don’t question it. But we should. It is also possible that the sex is passionate because some Straightbians are hypersexualized — so that is misleading too.

      Like

      • Straight people really are so boring and predictable, and yet we waste so much virtual ink writing about them. Fine if they want to “explore their sexuality”, but why can’t they do that with each other, rather than come sniffing around us?

        Liked by 1 person

        • I have said the same thing! Too bad hets usually feel the need to invade gay/lesbian lives, rather than hooking up with each other. My guess is they need someone to show them the ropes, so to speak. Which sounds kinkier than intended.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Two brains that beat as one, Saye. Not everybody would agree with me that real lesbians and real gay men are “natural allies”, among other things because we come to the same conclusions through different routes.

          I grew up on a “summer holiday” island, and I know to be welcoming of tourists, while at the same time resisting colonizers. Any line we draw has to be kinda arbitrary, but we have to do it.

          Islanders throughout the world have exactly the same kvetches about mainlanders as we did. We’re immensely protective of our territory, because we know how limited it is. Keep walking that way, you’ll fall off a cliff and be in the sea.

          Some tourists loved our island so much they actually wanted to come live there. Of course, we were flattered, but for our own self-protection, we kinda made it difficult for them.

          I’m not claiming any exact parallel, but it’s clear to me that what’s biting us in the ass right now is our own failure to adequately police our lesbian and gay boundaries.

          Fraternal greeting from Gaylandia to… well, Lesbos, I guess, I don’t even need to make up a name (-:

          Liked by 1 person

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